Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but I just figured out the backbone of this scam of 4gb players that only have less than 1gb (or whatever the memory scam). I believe eBay sellers like UGOOLE, who btw advertises on this site through that eBay search link, know exactly what they're selling.

They've had plenty of people complain about the memory scam, yet they continue to sell the same players. If you complain to them, they will generally have no problem offering you a partial refund (they will try to refund the least possible). It's all part of the plan... they're making a lot more money on 4GB players, if you look at the closed auctions on eBay. More than on the same 2gb nano clones, yet they only have 1gb. They're taking into account having to refund some buyers, hoping most will pass eBay's 90day feedback limit before they find out the scam. They still make more money than being honest, because an occasional refund (especially a partial refund), still yields them far more net profit on ebay than selling players correctly advertised.

They usually have several eBay accounts already, to disperse the impact of the feedback record. If they get too many negs, they open another account and start over, no problem there. Because eBay does f**k all for its buyers and because these frauds make Ebay lots of money, they can continue like this until everyone stops buying nano clones. I'm an honest person (and eBay seller), but I know the mindset of a ripoff artist. These guys know exactly what they're doing, its all about the numbers. And they are getting away with it, guys! UGOOLE, Tradeasy and most other nano clone scammers in Hong Kong are still up on eBay still selling the same scam players.

michiganjfrog,

I would agree with you too on this one.

The idea of a "4GB" at a very cheap price will trigger a lot of sales. People think they're getting a really good bargin when compared with the 4GB iPod's!

This gives them more competitive edge over other auctions because 4GB for the same price as a 2GB would definately look better for the buyer. I mean, why buy a 2GB player when you can get a 4GB for the same price right?

I think someone should make a write up in eBay about 'hacked players' and how to overcome them.

It's unfortunate though that the majority of people that find this site and the mention of hacked players AFTER they've bought the player. It's only when you run into problems that you search the internet to find the cause, which is unfortunate.

admin wrote (View Post): › michiganjfrog, I would agree with you too on this one. The idea of a "4GB" at a very cheap price will trigger a lot of sales. People think they're getting a really good bargin when compared with the 4GB iPod's! This gives them more competitive edge over other auctions because 4GB for the same price as a 2GB would definately look better for the buyer. I mean, why buy a 2GB player when you can get a 4GB for the same price right?

Right, but my point was, they're not just trying to achieve a competitive edge here, they're trying to make more money. I'm looking to buy a 2GB nano clone, and I've seen how the 4GB clones sell regularly for significantly more on eBay. So the signficant extra profit margin allows them to placate the "odd customer" (now growing in number thanks to sites like this) that finds out about the scam before 90 days, by giving them a refund (as low a refund as they can manage to shut the guy up).
Even if they gave FULL refunds to all complainants, guess what, they're still making more profit than if they were to sell them as 2GB players! And of course, more than if they were to sell them as the 1GB players (if not less) that they really are!

Quote: › I think someone should make a write up in eBay about 'hacked players' and how to overcome them.

That's a fantastic idea! I would do it myself, but I'm not really an expert on the Nano clones, I only found out about them like 3 days ago! Would it be better for one of you more experienced guys to write an eBay guide on hacked 4GB players? Especially someone who got burned by one! (I'm trying to avoid getting burned myself but let me tell you, it ain't easy doing that and at the same time, being a cheapass who doesn't want to pay more from a more reputable source...)

Quote: › It's unfortunate though that the majority of people that find this site and the mention of hacked players AFTER they've bought the player. It's only when you run into problems that you search the internet to find the cause, which is unfortunate.

I'm doing my part by occasionally emailing winners of 4GB Nano clones from sellers I know to be frauds, letting them know they most likely have a 4GB fake on their hands. I even sent a message to a buyer who left positive feedback about the player being a 4gb player, and not a fake. I asked him if he was so sure of that. He replies saying its 4GB if you do not "encode". I didn't know what he was talking about, I assume he meant transferring wav's instead of mp3's. I told him I didn't know of any Nano clones that look like the Nano and really have 4gb. I gave him the link to your site and wished him luck!

A Very Valid point is made,, and as a victim of ugoole I know it is correct... I have been offered £5 from the £39 I spent on a bogus 4gig which is in fact a 1gig! The wording of their response is also a lot cleverer than we think.. they offer to examine, repair or replace the offending unit,, and only ask that you pay postage and send via royal mail and not high speed carriers... In my opinion this is exclusively to placate Ebay and PayPal.. Neither company want to lose the thousands of pounds they get from the likes of Ugoole, and they will fight hard to defend them before supporting US. We are trapped in a commercial environment where everyone is making money from these scams,, and as customers we are at the very bottom of any pile!
I love the idea of writing to successful bidders and warning them of the problems they have bought.. but once again we miss the chance to stop the scam progressing,,, and once again Ugoole, Ebay and Paypal make a few more pounds profit!
As was also pointed out even this site is promoting bogus Ugoole products.. so we aint in the best position (as a forum) to have a go.
Dave

daveislander wrote (View Post): › As was also pointed out even this site is promoting bogus Ugoole products.. so we ain't in the best position (as a forum) to have a go. Dave

Totally agree, the first link in the ebay add leads to Ugoole right now, with a 4 gig player. 2 out of the 6 adds in the ebay frame are hacked players. There should be 4 a gig filter on it, or another advertiser.

Que: Agreed there should be a 4gb filter on the eBay link here, if indeed there are no nano clones with true 4gb ram. The site is not advertising the players per se, but indirectly advertising them.

Davislander: Fully concur with everything you wrote of course, and I will add that my little habit of notifying winning bidders of 4gb nano clones does not stop the tide. But I suggested someone here write a 4GB Hacked Player guide for eBay (and make sure people will see it!), and I reiterate that suggestion! (I'm not experienced enough with the mp4 scene to do it myself).

The basic problem here is twofold:

1)As I see it, its not the frauds & scammers that are the real problem: it's the companies like eBay that support their scams, and are willing to do f&k scratch all when its pointed out that these people are selling illegitimate 4gb players, and some of the feedback comments reflect that. eBay could stop this in a heartbeat if they wanted to. I havent been made a victim of these scammers (yet...), but maybe for fun I will send eBay an email asking why they allow them to continue

2) People are unaware. The people I contacted to warn them of what they purchased certainly weren't aware of the scam. Knowledge is power, and the best power to use against the scammers. If there are NO Nano clones with 4GB, then its real easy to "out" the scammers at this point....

Que wrote (View Post): › daveislander wrote (View Post): › As was also pointed out even this site is promoting bogus Ugoole products.. so we ain't in the best position (as a forum) to have a go. Dave Totally agree, the first link in the ebay add leads to Ugoole right now, with a 4 gig player. 2 out of the 6 adds in the ebay frame are hacked players. There should be 4 a gig filter on it, or another advertiser.

Hi guys,

We are only linking to eBay using their Editor Kit. This just goes to eBay's system and pulls down anything with "mp4 player" in the keyword.

I have now put an exclusion from any auctions with "4GB" in it so it will filter out any 4GB players from being displayed on our site now.

We definately do not promote hacked 4GB players on this site that's for sure. It was a mistake on my part for not exclusing it from the eBay auctions displayed on this site.

First of all Binh (Admin) thank you for rectifying the problems with the advertising. It does make newbies like me a little bit suspicious when the first thing we see is the company who caused us the problems advertising the same damned product on the best forum on the WWW.
michiganjfrog... I accept all your comments, but having just spent the past 2 days communicating with EBay on the phone,, to the Press Office and various other folk on this very matter I have to say that short of a Police Enquiry which knocks on the Door of Ebay, I doubt that they will be asking any supplier to stop selling items that are bogus or fraudulant...
The standard EBay reply is used every time,, namely, THEY are not responcible for all the items posted on the site,, they rely upon the sellers honesty and do not have the resources to check the veracity of any claims made..
They DO investigate claims of fraud, but as long as the seller is making 'reasonable' attempts to rectify the problem, they can not intervene.. and as the latest Chinese Junk peddlars are offering to investigate, repair and replace these 'Broken' items, they are doing all that is required of them..
It is apparently not fair to expect sellers to pay the costs involved with sending back items that may simply be not what the customer thought it was (honestly!).
Ebay have no knowledge or expertese with technology and are not in a position to say that a 4gig MP3/MP4 product is genuine or not... There are certainly 4gig MP3 players available and they wouldn't be willing to place a warning on all MP3 players just because some have 'problems'
Ebay might consider a warning in the forums, they claim that there are already warnings out there,, but they could not condone a company being accused of fraud unless this was proven in a court of Law.
There are less complaints about MP3 players than many other products and this is probably because the companies involved take extraordinary steps to rectify problems as they base their business on good feeback and couldn't continue to trade if they were 'inundated with complaints' as my comments (to them on the telephone) would imply.

There are other things said, but the truth as far as I am concerned is that Ebay dont want to know.. they make a HUGE profit from the chinese companies and its a huge market that they are just beginning to get access to. PayPal are somewhat more willing to take action where the case can be proven,, but this may also be because they keep the commission from the original deal, and take a bit more from refunds.. win win to them!

admin wrote (View Post): › I have now put an exclusion from any auctions with "4GB" in it so it will filter out any 4GB players from being displayed on our site now.

Clever Binh, can you put multiple filter words too, like blown-z, etcetera? Or do they change names too fast

admin wrote (View Post): › I think someone should make a write up in eBay about 'hacked players' and how to overcome them.

I searched eBay guides to see if there was anything warning about hacked players and I found this
So far out of the five mp4's I've bought, I've been lucky only to get one hacked one. For more info, see topic Hacked 1gb player from powersellerturbo. I can't stand scammers like him. Not only that, but he's extremely obnoxious and won't acknowlegde his scams.

Errr,, sorry to be negative here,, but I am still seeing a photo of the 4gig(1Gig) player I bought.. Its still showing on the main page.. Perhaps a bit more filtering is required?

[quote="daveislander";p="15350"]


*The standard EBay reply is used every time,, namely, THEY are not responcible for all the items posted on the site,, they rely upon the sellers honesty and do not have the resources to check the veracity of any claims made.. *

Blameshifting BS, of course. When there isn't a true 4GB Nano clone on the ENTIRE SITE, because ***4GB NANO CLONES FROM CHINA DO NOT EXIST****, then there is no question about "relying upon the seller's honesty". The seller's are fraudulent, plain and simple. They may have had an excuse in the past about not knowing the boards on the Nano clones are currently not capable of accepting a 4GB configuration. They have no excuse now, because it's an established FACT. Established by investigations done on this site and other sources.

Furthermore, their sister co. Paypal, asks for 3rd party verification when such a claim of fraud is made. If one person does that, then eBay doesn't need "the resources to check the claim". In a case like this, where there ARE NO KNOWN TRUE 4GB CLONES, it'd have to be up to the seller to prove their item is not fraudulent in order to go on selling the devices, in light of all the evidence that 4GB clones dont exist! And not simply make restitution to the buyers before their 90 days are up.


*They DO investigate claims of fraud, but as long as the seller is making 'reasonable' attempts to rectify the problem, they can not intervene.. *

Hence the reason the sellers ask for the players back...

*It is apparently not fair to expect sellers to pay the costs involved with sending back items that may simply be not what the customer thought it was (honestly!).*

Except this isn't simply a case of where the buyer has buyer's remorse. This is a case where the SELLER is fraudulently advertising false claims. In that case, as it has been pointed out here by one burned buyer, it IS the seller's responsibility to assume all costs involved in rectifying the situation. And the seller is at risk of criminal charges, if he continues to sell and advertise the same fraudulent merchandise, after a complaint has been made.

It's obvious that complaints need to be made to government agencies that govern the practices of eBay, if eBay won't respond within their organization to protect the eBay community of buyers, by recognizing the FACT that there ARE NO KNOWN 4GB NANO CLONES ANYWHERE.

*Ebay have no knowledge or expertese with technology and are not in a position to say that a 4gig MP3/MP4 product is genuine or not... *

They don't have to be. They simply have to acceptable reasonable 3rd party evidence of such a fact. If they do not wish to accept reasonable 3rd party evidence verifying these facts, they are party to fraud themselves.

*There are certainly 4gig MP3 players available and they wouldn't be willing to place a warning on all MP3 players just because some have 'problems'*

Once again, NO ONE IS ASKING THEM TO!! We are talking about NANO CLONES, not "All MP3 players!". In fact, these are popularly known as "MP4 players" not "MP3 players". No warning is necessary for Apple iPods and I'm not sure, but there may be some non-apple chinese non-brand name MP4 players (which are NOT Nano clones) that have more than 2gb of flash.

*Ebay might consider a warning in the forums, they claim that there are already warnings out there,, but they could not condone a company being accused of fraud unless this was proven in a court of Law.*

ALL THAT HAS TO BE PROVEN is that there are NO known chinese noname Nano knockoffs (MP4 players which look like the Nano) that have 4GB memory. So its ridiculous to litigate every eBay seller to prove it in a court of law when its a known fact that there are NO eBay sellers that have been proven to be selling true 4GB chinese Nano clones.

*There are less complaints about MP3 players than many other products and this is probably because the companies involved take extraordinary steps to rectify problems as they base their business on good feeback and couldn't continue to trade if they were 'inundated with complaints' as my comments (to them on the telephone) would imply.*

BS. If you look at the feedback records of most hong kong 4GB MP4 Nano knockoff sellers on eBay, you find their feedback records are piss poor. It's AVERAGE to see several DOZEN negative feedbacks in the last month from these sellers! (They don't just sell fraudulent mp4 players....). They use multiple accounts, so they can simply hide their feedback by opening a new account, when it gets too bad. FEEDBACK SYSTEM DOESN"T DO SH*T TO PROTECT EBAY CUSTOMERS when eBay sellers have the opportunity to change their accounts or use multiple ones. So in short, yes they can continue to trade no matter how many people they rip off, no problem sir. And what's more, the extra profits they make from selling 1GB players at 4GB prices, makes up for reduced sales if their negs get too high.

*There are other things said, but the truth as far as I am concerned is that Ebay dont want to know.. they make a HUGE profit from the chinese companies and its a huge market that they are just beginning to get access to. *

Absofreakinlutely. I have no problem seeing that. That's why I say those burned have to take the fight against eBay to trade commissions that regulate eBay's practices, and to 3rd party web press. The US gov needs to be aware that eBay is protecting fraudulent merchandisers, and so does the public at large. This hasn't bitten eBay CEO's in the ass yet, because it isn't that well known. How many people need to be burned with these 4GB players until it is?

Obviously I agree with you 100%.. I have spent hours and hours in contact with these folk.. I have contacted the Chinese Embassy, the Hong Kong Traders.. Ebay, Paypal and trading standards here in the UK.. It has become something of a mission for me, and at every turn there are excuses, explanations and 'reasons', but no action! As an ex freelance journalist even I am having problems getting enough genuine information to fight these folk!
What WE must remember is that even 100 complaints against a product are split between 20, 30, 40 or 50 countries.. I can contact Ebay.co.uk but they will only discuss .co.uk issues.. trying to get them to collate the total complaints is hard and obviously they have no interest in doing so.
I have no doubt that eventually someone here (maybe even me) will find a chink (pardon pun) in their armour.. but there must be no doubts that Ebay & Paypal will need a bloody big fright to get them to remove such a good money spinner.

michiganjfrog,

I would have thought, if eBay gets enough complaints about one particluar eBay seller, they would do something about it?


princessanne1026,

Good find. Hopefully people can write more on it and more importantly customers actually search and read it before buying.


daveislander,

I'll try to redefine the search exclusion again. Try for multiple keyword exclusions as well as account name exclusion.

admin wrote (View Post): › michiganjfrog, I would have thought, if eBay gets enough complaints about one particluar eBay seller, they would do something about it?

Well I have yet to hear of a single hacked MP4 case where they did. I only hear people complaining eBay is leaving them out to dry, taking the seller's side. The popular notion is, they're making too much money to be motivated to close sellers accounts. I am convinced by all I've seen that eBay is well aware of the rampant problem of hacked 4GB players. However, they are falling all over themselves to pass the buck and avoid looking at it as a worlwide eBay SCANDAL.

That's my beef with eBay. They're pretending it isn't a big deal to avoid those hong kong dollars. But who here knows of a 4GB Nano lookalike chinese clone that is actually 4GB? (And there are many non-Nano's that are also fake GB's) If there are NONE, then all of those sellers on all eBay sites are selling fraudulent merchandise. With all the reports people have had who purchased 4GB players, that should be enough evidence for eBay to put a stop to it, since no Nano clone seller can prove the units they're shipping contain 4GigaBYTES of flash, and its been proven the chips being used can't be used in a 4GB configuration. After all, epay had no problem changing the rules for how you could sell Playstation 3's (making sellers show photos of cash register receipts etc etc).